For about 225 eyars, America has move back and forth between periods of Religious Politics, and Humanist/Socialist Politics. Which is better for America?
Separation of C %26amp; S: Good or Bad?
The founding fathers wanted seperation of church and state, not seperation of God and government.
Reply:Separate the church from the state. I will not want to witness the Burning times again. It was horrible enough the first time around.
Reply:No religion.
Reply:you do need to keep it all separate. Religion is what causes most of the wars, so you don't need this taught in the schools were there will be internal struggles about what point of view to teach and arguments about what religion was taught more
Reply:Separation of church and state is absolutely necessary for our society to continue to uphold the freedom of religion.
Reply:Neither. We need a move toward individual "politics" and a drastic decrease in government across the board.
Reply:If this country doesn't practice separation of Church and State...we might as well change our name to "Iraq".
Reply:Separation of church and state was to protect church (ie. freedom of religion) from state.
And as for kurlylovescheese, we're doing a good enough job of going backwards on our own.
Reply:The auspices of religion ought never taint the halls of government.
History shows irrefutably that organized religion cannot be trusted to equitably master the demands of political authority.
IF we were to move towards a Christian government (Christianity is internally communist and externally socialist, doesn't have a death penalty, is characterized by its adherents attending the welfare of the less fortunate, etc.), THEN we could perhaps argue in favor of such a government.
However, it should be quite obvious to everyone reading this that such a government will never happen in the USA, because the "haves and the have mores" will never distribute their wealth among the "have nots" -- and, for what it's worth, the "have nots" will never have the aptitude, education or opportunity to be stewards of much more than they already have.
"Humanist/Socialist Politics" is for any nation VERY MUCH LESS BAD than "Religious Politics."
Reply:I agree with Beach Bum-he should get 10 points
Reply:finding peace is better....i dont think America should shift to religion because its just going to fall apart because of all those different groups.....America should focus on Peace and fairness and Justice
Reply:The term "separation of church and state" appears nowhere in either the Constitution of the United States, nor in the Declaration of Independence. The first amendment says that Congress may not make any law concerning the establishment of religion, or the free exercise of religion. The freedom to practice my religion is right up there with my freedom of speech.
The term "separation of church and state" actually first appeared in a letter from Benjamin Franklin to a religious group of people who were concerned that America not designate a "state religion". He pointed out that the first amendment protected against any such thing, coining the phrase "separation of church and state" as a way of saying the church was protected from interference from the state by the first amendment.
Just like they do with the contents of the Bible, people have taken this phrase out of context and twisted it to mean something that was never intended.
Reply:whenever the religious nuts take over we go backwards as a people.
Reply:Whichever the voters choose at the time.
Reply:Separation of Church and State
In 1773, the Rev. Isaac Backus , the most prominent Baptist minister in New England, observed that when "church and state are separate, the effects are happy, and they do not at all interfere with each other: but where they have been confounded together, no tongue nor pen can fully describe the mischiefs that have ensued."
One of the most ironic aspects of the current assault on separation of church and state is that the apostles of religious correctness have managed to obscure the broad and tolerant origins of the godless Constitution, which was written and ratified by a coalition of Enlightenment rationalists and evangelical Christians denominations equally fearful of entanglements between religion and government.
Arthur Schlesinger Jr., published in the Los Angeles Times, October 24, 2004: The founding fathers did not mention God in the Constitution, and the faithful often regarded our early presidents as insufficiently pious. George Washington was a nominal Anglican who rarely stayed for Communion. John Adams was a Unitarian, which Trinitarians abhorred as heresy. Thomas Jefferson, denounced as an atheist, was actually a deist who detested organized religion and who produced an expurgated version of the New Testament with the miracles eliminated. Jefferson and James Madison, a nominal Episcopalian, were the architects of the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom. James Monroe was another Virginia Episcopalian. John Quincy Adams was another Massachusetts Unitarian.
The Godless Constitution
The word "God" does not appear within the text of the Constitution of the United States. After spending three-and-a-half months debating and negotiating about what should go into the document that would govern the land, the framers drafted a constitution that is secular. The U.S. Constitution is often confused with the Declaration of Independence, and it's important to understand the difference.
The Declaration of Independence is seen as that document that established the new nation of the United States. It was written by Thomas Jefferson in 1776. It was signed by the Continental Congress and sent to King George III of England. It is a very eloquent document that is celebrated every July 4, but it is not the law of the land. It is a statement of sentiments directed to King George III in reaction to unfair taxation. The U.S. Constitution was ratified on March 4, 1789 -- thirteen years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence.
The Declaration of Independence refers to "the Creator:"
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document; it is not the U.S. Constitution. Foes of the principle of separation of church and state often refer to the word "Creator" in the Declaration of Independence as proof that the framers of the U.S. Constitution intended for the United States to be ruled by a soveriegn being. Nothing could be further from the truth. The United States Constitution was written and ratified by elected officials representing a coalition of Enlightenment rationalists and evangelical Christians who were deeply concerned about entanglements between religion and government.
From Legacy Of Freedom by Rob Boston, Church and State, January, 2003. "Jefferson, Madison And The Nation's Founders Left Us Church-State Separation. Can We Keep It?"
What the Religious Right doesn't tell people, and what, tragically, many Americans apparently don't know, is that when it comes to determining what the laws of the United States mean, the only document that matters is the Constitution. The Constitution, a completely secular document, contains no references to God, Jesus or Christianity. It says absolutely nothing about the United States being officially Christian. The Religious Right's constant appeals to documents like the Declaration of Independence, which contains a deistic reference to "the Creator," cloud the issue and make some people believe their rights spring from these other documents.
The Godless Constitution was written by two professors of government and history at Cornell University. Isaac Kramnick and R. Laurence Moore have spent their careers studying religion in American life. Some quotes from their book:
The preamble of the Constitution invokes the people of the United States. It does not invoke any sort of God
The Constitution forbids any religious test to hold office. A godless person is just as eligible as a godly one! (Article 6, Paragraph 3)
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, Benjamin Franklin strongly suggested on June 28 that the convention have prayers said there. Evangelists take this as proof that the convention then went on with prayers. But, in fact, the convention did not accept the suggestion, and the convention went on without prayers.
The Tripoli Treaty of 1797 between the US and the Barbary States, unanimously approved by the US Senate on June 10, 1797, specifically states that the US is NOT a Christian nation. At that time, the US government was still dominated by those who are referred to today as the "Founding Fathers". ARTICLE 11:
Supreme Court Justice Harry A. Blackmun in the Lee v. Weisman ruling, 1992: "When the government puts its imprimatur on a particular religion it conveys a message of exclusion to all those who do not adhere to the favored beliefs. A government cannot be premised on the belief that all persons are created equal when it asserts that God prefers some." more
John F. Kennedy September 12, 1960, address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association: I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.
Americans United for a Separation of Church and State:
"It is true that the literal phrase 'separation of church and state' does not appear in the Constitution, but that does not mean the concept isn't there. The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."
What does that mean? A little history is helpful: In an 1802 letter to the Danbury (Conn.) Baptist Association, Thomas Jefferson, then president, declared that the American people through the First Amendment had erected a "wall of separation between church and state." (Colonial religious liberty pioneer Roger Williams used a similar phrase 150 years earlier.)
Jefferson, however, was not the only leading figure of the post-revolutionary period to use the term separation. James Madison, considered to be the Father of the Constitution, said in an 1819 letter, "[T]he number, the industry and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church and state." In an earlier, undated essay (probably early 1800s), Madison wrote, "Strongly guarded...is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States."
As eminent church-state scholar Leo Pfeffer notes in his book, Church, State and Freedom, "It is true, of course, that the phrase 'separation of church and state' does not appear in the Constitution. But it was inevitable that some convenient term should come into existence to verbalize a principle so clearly and widely held by the American people....[T]he right to a fair trial is generally accepted to be a constitutional principle; yet the term 'fair trial' is not found in the Constitution. To bring the point even closer home, who would deny that 'religious liberty' is a constitutional principle? Yet that phrase too is not in the Constitution. The universal acceptance which all these terms, including 'separation of church and state,' have received in America would seem to confirm rather than disparage their reality as basic American democratic principles."
Thus, it is entirely appropriate to speak of the "constitutional principle of church-state separation" since that phrase summarizes what the First Amendment's religion clauses do-they separate church and state.
Religious Right activists have tried for decades to make light of Jefferson's "wall of separation" response to the Danbury Baptists, attempting to dismiss it as a hastily written note designed to win the favor of a political constituency. But a glance at the history surrounding the letter shows they are simply wrong.
As church-state scholar Pfeffer points out, Jefferson clearly saw the letter as an opportunity to make a major pronouncement on church and state. Before sending the missive, Jefferson had it reviewed by Levi Lincoln, his attorney general. Jefferson told Lincoln he viewed the response as a way of "sowing useful truths and principles among the people, which might germinate and become rooted among their political tenets."
At the time he wrote the letter, Jefferson was under fire from conservative religious elements who hated his strong stand for full religious liberty. Jefferson saw his response to the Danbury Baptists as an opportunity to clear up his views on church and state. Far from being a mere courtesy, the letter represented a summary of Jefferson's thinking on the purpose and effect of the First Amendment's religion clauses.
Jefferson's Danbury letter has been cited favorably by the Supreme Court many times. In its 1879 Reynolds v. U.S. decision the high court said Jefferson's observations "may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." In the court's 1947 Everson v. Board of Education decision, Justice Hugo Black wrote, "In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between church and state.'" It is only in recent times that separation has come under attack by judges in the federal court system who oppose separation of church and state."
A resource on the Constitutional Principle of Church and State debate.
The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004, introduced into both houses of Congress on February 11, 2004, "includes the acknowledgment of God as the sovereign source of law by an official in his capacity of executing his office." Katherine Yurica, author of the Yurica Report, reports on this bill that reveals the theocratic intentions of its sponsors including Rep. Robert Aderholt (Alabama), Rep. Michael Pence (Indiana), Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, Sen. Zell Miller (Georgia), Sen. Sam Brownback (Kansas), and Sen. Lindsey Graham (South Carolina).
Rob Boston of Americans United for Separation of Church and State:
"The constitutional principle of separation of church and state has given Americans more religious freedom than any people in world history. Around the globe, those suffering under the heavy heel of government-sponsored religious oppression look to America's church-state model with longing. The "wall of separation between church and state" is America's bulwark of true religious liberty."
THIS SPACE IS NOT ENOUGH ... just do your research. and you find many things about America.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
No comments:
Post a Comment